Some CDs will not co-operate B2
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Junior Member 16 posts David W Junior Member 16 posts
David W
Hi all - first post in the new forum, as I can't find any other reference to this little oddity.  Been a user for over 2 years, with some 760 discs loaded without significant problems.  Often listen to the music on random, rediscovering old forgotten favourites, and all that is great, but with occasional instances of B2 not playing some tracks, although reporting that it is playing.  Usually, I move on to the next random track and make a note to look into that later, but of course don't get round to it.

So, I receive a gift of a new CD, load it straight to B2 with no problem, but subsequent attempts to play it fail.  Everything is there, B2 says it is playing, but no sound.  The other 5 CD gifts that I ripped the same day all play fine.  I check that CD on the Web UI, which reports that the file is playing, but no sound, so I delete it and reload, and same thing.  I delete that, then rip again using dBPowerAmp, and that appears to work and play, but again no sound.  I insert the CD into B2 again, and try to just play the CD without ripping, which it does, but again no sound.  The CD plays on my Mac, and rips into iTunes with no problem.

I shall make better note of other instances next time they occur (with some 9500 tracks on the B2, I will not go specifically looking for them!), but wonder if this is a copyright issue with some discs?  If relevant, it is an HDCD disc by Mark Knopfler, Golden Heart.

I look forward to hearing from other users on this, particularly if is something blindingly obvious that I have overlooked!
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Fred Senior Member 3,905 posts
Fred
Hi David,

Welcome to the new forum.

I believe the problem is that the HDCD music format is not compatible with the B2, it can only play/rip standard CDs, 
High Definition Compatible Digital (HDCD) is a proprietary format that encodes the equivalent of 20 bits worth of data in a 16-bit digital audio signal. The claim that the encoding process is compatible with ordinary CD players is disputed.

Fred
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JFBUK (John) Senior Member 1,657 posts
JFBUK (John)
Hi David,

when you rip with dBPoweramp do the ripped tracks play OK on your Mac ?

John
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David W Junior Member 16 posts
David W
Hi Fred and John

Thanks for your replies - I suspected this might be the problem, but was thrown off course by the B2 accepting the rip and appearing to act as normal.  The files I ripped with dBPowerAmp into the Mac Music folder (as opposed to actual iTunes) do play, so I thought that copying those across using B2 as a NAS would do the trick.  But of course, if B2 does not recognise the HDCD format that won't do.  I wonder if I could copy from iTunes, which I have done before for tracks I have purchased?

David 
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MarkF Senior Member 9,867 posts
MarkF
@David W
Do you have an audio-only CD player? Not a computer drive, not a DVD or BluRay player, just a plain old-fashioned connect to the stereo audio CDs only player? See if the disc will play on that and produce sound.

I happen to have a remastered-in-HDCD set of Fresh Aire 1-8 by Mannheim Steamroller, on the American Gramaphone label. (Don't ask, I don't know why, either.) So I put the first of the set -- Fresh Aire I: Spring -- into my B2, waited for the lookup, and ripped it. Immediately after the disc was ripped and ejected, I played a couple of tracks -- Behringer DAC connected to USB C, with headphones on the DAC output. They played fine. Audio as expected. Not a problem. I'll let it compress to FLAC and listen again later. (I'll mention in passing that a few years ago I ripped the same set on a Cocktail Audio X12 box, which also compressed them to FLAC, and those rips have always played fine, too.) EDIT: follow-up - The FLACs play fine also. As expected.

But I did not expect a problem solely because of the HDCD process. Physically and logically, the CD is a standard Red Book Audio CD. Once a 24-bit audio stream is encoded using the HDCD process, what comes out is an ordinary 16-bit/44.1ksps PCM file that just has extra noise in the lowest few bits. An HDCD-encoded CD is just an ordinary CD that can trigger an HDCD decoder (software or hardware) to re-approximate the original 24-bit PCM audio. In the absence of such a decoder it's just ordinary 16-bit audio, maybe with a little extra noise or distortion compared to if it had just been resampled and redithered to 16 bits to begin with.

Any ordinary audio-only CD player can play them because the disc format is standard. Unless there's an HDCD decoder in the playback chain, apart from the extra noise (which supposedly is inaudible) you should get ordinary-sounding CD audio.

Your mystery is due to something else that is specific to the discs, or the B2, that you have.
I am not now, nor have I ever been, a Brennan employee or business affiliate. I am a customer. My opinions are my own, and do not represent Brennan policy.
 
"If a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, I cannot believe that the cure is even less knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
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Daniel Taylor Senior Member 2,501 posts
Daniel Taylor
I have that actual disc by Mark Knopfler - Golden Heart and it is an HDCD disc.  When I insert it into my B2 and press Play, it does play without any problem.  The encoding on HDCD discs is designed so that CD players that are not equipped to decode HDCD can still play the disc without the benefit of the HD encoding.  If that were not true, the HDCD format would have been shot down before it ever got off the ground.

Why your disc won't play on your B2 is a mystery.  Your thought to rip with dBpoweramp on your computer and then transfer the files to the b2 was a good idea.  I'm puzzled that that didn't work.  I will rip the CD and do further tests.
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David W Junior Member 16 posts
David W
Hi MarkF and Daniel

I have tried the disc in my old B&O Beosound 9000 player, and that plays,  jumps to commanded tracks etc, but also no sound.  But it does play in my Mac's little reader, so I guess it's not just a duff disc.  I will try later transferring from the successfully imported iTunes folder to B2 via NAS.  As further info,  or possibly confusion, I use the optical output from the B2 into a (Teufel) DAC, and a wired digital output from the B&O CD player into the same DAC, which feeds an active B&O speaker system at line level.
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JFBUK (John) Senior Member 1,657 posts
JFBUK (John)
Hi David,

if you have headphones do you get anything when you plug them into the the B&O  and play the CD on the B&O ?
It bypasses the DAC so just a thought ?

John
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Daniel Taylor Senior Member 2,501 posts
Daniel Taylor
Just a point of info:  my B2 plays via HDMI (in spite of the hassle of getting it to connect).  I will add the headphone test to my further tests later today.  Currently, I'm listening to the album all the way through as WAV files ripped on the B2.  Later I'll convert them to FLAC.  I'll also rip to FLAC on my computer and import that.
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David W Junior Member 16 posts
David W
Hi John - your suggestion reminded me that sitting forgotten above my head at my desk is another CD player, feeding the same old Cambridge Audio amp that is connected to my Mac - what my wife would call Man (not) seeing!  Anyway, this old Pioneer player/recorder plays the disc just  fine.  Very odd.


David
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